Quantity or Quality Recipes: What's more important Zazz?

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RZ-Admin
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Re: Quantity or Quality Recipes: What's more important Zazz?

Post by RZ-Admin » Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:45 pm

Good points Misa. :) I like the draw idea. And I like the idea of coming up with some way of determining a 'quality' photo. Voting on images is an idea presented by some members.

Beyond photos, here's some other ideas we're considering how to integrate:
- Helpful tips.
- Popular variations.
- Linking related recipes - right now, they can manually be assigned (takes some work) and they can be automatically added, but they're less relevant.
- Adding common questions people ask and answer them.
- Providing 'diet friendly' variations. Gluten-free, vegan, keto, sugar-free, carb-free, etc. Not every one on every recipe, but when it makes sense.
- Substitute ingredients.
- Grouping recipes by themes, ex. '25+ Easy Crockpot Chicken Recipes'
- Rewarding those who contribute by featuring their recipes in high exposure places. Something for them to be proud of.

JostLori
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:15 pm

Re: Quantity or Quality Recipes: What's more important Zazz?

Post by JostLori » Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:59 pm

Hi Dave
Seems like your question about quality or quantity is really about more than that. I think you're finding yourself in an uneasy place, kind of like a "middle child"in the world of recipe sites. I remember when Zazz first started out and it was a welcome relief from the ruination of the site that goes unnamed by me. But we must all admit that it was rather rustic at the beginning. It has evolved over the years, and it gets better all the time. There are very few sites like it, and I don't understand why.

When you look at the other recipe sites out there, they are pretty darned fancy. But note of them boast a "family" of followers like Zazz does, however small. And there are very few with great forums.

I just did a quick search for "Meatloaf recipes". I had to go 9 whole pages before coming across the first Recipezazz recipe. There are many reasons for that. I always find that the same old sites always come up on page one, and two, and three, and.... Ok, sites like the one I won't name because, years later, I'm still pissed off. Then there's Bon Appetit, Southern Living, Pioneer Woman, The Kitchn, Taste of Home, MyRecipes, All Recipes, Paula Deen, Just a Pinch. You get it. All big names, many are big media companies and book publishers or authors. They sell subscriptions, products, etc. They have tons of money to spend on site optimization and probably pay to be pushed up in the rankings. Maybe you have tons of money too, but probably not like they do!

If you look at their home pages, they are slick. You can tell right away that their images are curated. You won't see one single "bad" picture there. In most cases, you won't see recipes that their readers post sight unseen. (Unfortunately, that's one of the things that makes Zazz so endearing - that we can see everything!). They show collections of recipes (25 GREAT Chicken Dinners in 10 Minutes or Less!). LOL. And the photos they show in those collections are also curated. They don't just take the default photo showing on the recipe, they show the best photo of that recipe. This is something that Zazz could probably do better, and with more timely updating. And still have a section at the bottom where it streams what's being posted (recipes and photos).

I love Member of the Day and Recipe of the Day. I'm always excited when I'm IT! So it's something to look forward to. But sometimes the Member of the Day is not a very active member, and I wonder how they got chosen. Like today - the Member of the Day has 13 recipes posted, has reviewed 5, and has posted zero photos! Whaaaat??? Nothing against that member, but what criteria is used to determine who gets chosen?

Sorry to go on so long! The other thing I've noted is that Pinterest has great attraction. There, you can choose what you post, and make it a good one. Many people go there for recipes. I didn't use to, but now I often do. I like what you're doing on Facebook, the photos are good, but the posting is sporadic. Unlike some that pop up every single day. (I know that takes money!)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not necessarily JUST the quality of recipes that draws people to the site. It's other things that are external to it, and the competition is fierce. I have clients with small companies that pay a good chunk of their budgets for digital marketing consultants, just to get their foot in the door. Some do it successfully.

I only have one worry, and that's if Zazz goes the way of that other site and only worries about the money coming in, with complete disregard for the "family" that existed on the forums. The family that helped them get to where they are today. Please just don't get rid of the forums and the community!

Think I better stop there, this is turning into a book!

Sue
Posts: 5498
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:45 am

Re: Quantity or Quality Recipes: What's more important Zazz?

Post by Sue » Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:30 pm

RZ-Admin wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:23 pm

I have not done a study on quality.

On one hand, I have a anecdotal 'stories' from people I talk to who compare what they discover at Zazz to other cooking sites. Generally, they prefer the 'bigger more polished' sites. One of the first things they mention is the pictures. We have a lot of great recipes with great pictures. But we also have a lot of recipes with pictures taken 10+ years ago. It's no fault of the person who posted the picture, the quality of pictures has just improved a lot in 10 years.

Second, is more of a technical matter of quality. The traffic we get from search engines is 85% of the traffic. That's what pays the bills. So if our traffic goes down too much, we risk not being able to pay the bills. When search rankings go down, traffic goes down. Search rankings go down when the search engine finds better pages than ours to show at the top of the search results. Ultimately, this is another representation of quality. It's a relative measure, because it is in comparison to the other webpages out there.

If you want examples of what I'm talking about, maybe a better place to start is examples of our recipes that do well. Both with members and search engines. Then we can figure out ways to add more of that quality to the site.
Moz DA can be an albatross.

My member suggestion would be to work on that. 39/100 is not a good look for you.

RZ-Admin
Site Admin
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Re: Quantity or Quality Recipes: What's more important Zazz?

Post by RZ-Admin » Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:53 pm

Sue, I'm sorry for my ignorance. What does 'be an albatross' mean? I tried to look it up & didn't find anything other than the bird.

How do you suggest we work on DA?

RZ-Admin
Site Admin
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Re: Quantity or Quality Recipes: What's more important Zazz?

Post by RZ-Admin » Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:28 pm

Hi JostLori :),
You're right, we are kind of stuck in between. For starters, we consider the community the most important part of Zazz. Without the community, there would be no Zazz and no recipes that get traffic & generate enough $ to pay any bills.

No, we don't have tons of money. So you're right about that too.

We're not trying to be like those other sites, we're trying to make Zazz the best version of it possible. That's why when we post the 'Best Easy Crockpot Chicken Recipes', we admittedly are trying to get better search engine rankings for those recipes, which will help us get traffic that pays the bills. But we also involve members in deciding what recipes to feature, and the members who's recipes are featured are included. They deserve the credit for the recipe. I hope they feel recognized and appreciated when one of there recipes is chosen to be featured.

Thank you for your feedback on Recipe of the Day and Member of the Day. I've had those same thoughts as you! We'll get around to improving that. 1 thing at a time I guess.

Pinterest does seem to be great. Honestly, I don't have much of a clue how Pinterest decides which recipes get found at the top. We have some that do really well. I can't figure out how they got into a 'good' spot on Pinterest. If we can get some Pinterest expertise, it could be a good growth tactic.

We have no interest in going corporate. Everything will be community first. The people here are amazing and we believe they are the heart & soul of Zazz. The evolution from here will be guided, nurtured, and realized by the members.

Sue
Posts: 5498
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:45 am

Re: Quantity or Quality Recipes: What's more important Zazz?

Post by Sue » Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:14 pm

RZ-Admin wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:53 pm
Sue, I'm sorry for my ignorance. What does 'be an albatross' mean? I tried to look it up & didn't find anything other than the bird.

How do you suggest we work on DA?
An albatross is something that holds you back.

You can Google ways to improve rank.
Some people pay to have their site audited. Before heading there, maybe work on things for general housekeeping that you are aware.

I recommend doing a seek and find for dead links. Have your forum hosts houseclean the forums, going back looking for maybe images to places like photobucket which are extinct but leave 404 errors. And delete the image and the alt.

I am not sure of the ethics of it, at least for members, but I noticed a few years back at least one of the aggregators started changing the recipe titles without asking the members.
I suspect they were trying to optimize the titles for keywords, and also remove dupes. It would update the page, and Google loves that.
I notice in apps, those get updated "all the time", some almost every other day. I suspect that is to keep their app's serp high in the app store. I mean, there is no way they are fixing that many "bugs" (as they claim, unless they are totally incompetent- which they are not). I think they are jockeying for pole position.

Clean up work? It works you to the bone. There is always something to optimize. And if not, wait five minutes. :lol:

You have my sympathies is you are the Lone Ranger behind the scenes. Staff is expensive as all get out.
I work alone with occasional VA help from the hubz.
We are SO underpaid. Can I get a witness? :shock: :lol:

Sue
Posts: 5498
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Re: Quantity or Quality Recipes: What's more important Zazz?

Post by Sue » Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:21 pm

I was also just thinking how sites that create recipe roundups (which you mentioned doing) occasionally strip out the entire old content and overwrite.
Sometimes it is not even on the same topic. For example, they might erase Halloween content and replace it with Easter content. I had some things bookmarked, and returning to it discovered it was gone. I have zero idea how the Google algorithm feels about that, but I have done it on occasion, ditching content I no longer wanted. You'd have to figure that over time, the older roundups are less relevant, and also likely have less nice photos.

RZ-Admin
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Re: Quantity or Quality Recipes: What's more important Zazz?

Post by RZ-Admin » Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:38 pm

Thanks for clarifying Sue. Ya... we might have more than 1 albatross. I find that an odd metaphor though because apparently albatross can fly really high & for a really long time.

Your insights are appreciated as well. They're all either things we are looking into or need to put on our list of things to look into.

Clean up has already started & I guess it will never end...

Sue
Posts: 5498
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:45 am

Re: Quantity or Quality Recipes: What's more important Zazz?

Post by Sue » Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:03 am

RZ-Admin wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:38 pm
Thanks for clarifying Sue. Ya... we might have more than 1 albatross. I find that an odd metaphor though because apparently albatross can fly really high & for a really long time.

Your insights are appreciated as well. They're all either things we are looking into or need to put on our list of things to look into.

Clean up has already started & I guess it will never end...
It is one way in which an aggregator and a blog are exactly alike. For every mess that gets cleaned up, ten more spontaneously appear.
And the Google curse suggests that if you think you are getting close to optimizing SERP and SEO, they will find new hoops for us to jump through.

It's always a work in progress. :lol:

JostLori
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:15 pm

Re: Quantity or Quality Recipes: What's more important Zazz?

Post by JostLori » Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:01 pm

Yes, albatrosses fly high. My mind is going back to the 70's where we learned The Rime of the Ancient Mariner, so I'm probably getting part of this wrong. A ship being followed by an albatross was considered good luck. But one unfortunate sailor shot one that was following the ship and the wind stopped so they couldn't continue sailing. He was made to wear the dead albatross around his neck to remind him and everyone of what he'd done. Like Sue said, it's something that holds one back. And that's the end of my lesson on English Lit...

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